Podcasts and Webcasts with Michele

Interested in a deeper dive on Michele’s thoughts on a particular topic? Check out these recent podcast episodes organized by subject.

Updated June 1, 2023

Book Podcasts
You Are What You Risk on Next Big Idea Club Book Bites (download app to listen)
You Are What You Risk with The Chris Voss Show
YOU ARE WHAT YOU RISK Book launch “at” The Book Cellar in conversation with Amy Guth
Why We Ignore Risk on The Rewired Soul with Chris Boutté
Bonus Episode: Risk Management for Entrepreneurs and Writers on The Rewired Soul with Chris Boutté
Anne Janzer’s blog and podcast
You Are What You Risk on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen
The Gray Rhino on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen
You Are What You Risk with Dan Hill on New Books Network

Business Podcasts

NEW! Dealing with Risk in a World of Uncertainty on The Melting Pot Podcast with Dominic Monkhouse, April 11, 2023
NEW! Women and Risk: Changing the Narrative, CAPSTRAT Womens Forum webcast, March 8, 2023
All Things Risk Podcast Episode 188 with Ben Cattaneo, January 11, 2023
My Worst Investment Ever Podcast Episode 633 with Andrew Stotz, December 19, 2022
Innovation, Opportunity and Risk – InnovaBuzz Episode 548 with Dr. Jürgen Strauss -Australia’s #1 Innovation podcast, November 9, 2022

Newstalk Radio with Bobby Kerr/RTE Ireland, November 5, 2022
Risk, Gray Rhinos & Black Swans on The Lead-Lag Report with Michael Gayed, September 24, 2022
Reignite with Ainé Kerr/ RTE Ireland, August 20, 2022
The Gray Rhino in Reinvention on The Reinvention Show with Dr. Nadya Zhexembayeva and co-host Sherri Sutton
The Barry Moltz Show
The Price of Business with Kevin Price
Small Business Advocate with Jim Blasingame
Technori with Scott Kitun on WGN radio
SME Strategy with Anthony Taylor

Business Continuity and Disaster Preparedness Podcasts
Disaster Zone Episode 41: Personal and Organizational Risk Management with Eric Holdeman
Safety and Risk Preparedness with Christian Hunt

Behavior, Career and Personal Growth Podcasts
Climbing Gold: Captain Safety with Alex Honnold
Climbing Gold: Spotting the Gray Rhino (Exploring Risk Fingerprints in Alpinism) with Alex Honnold
Ask a Decision Engineer with Michelle Florendo
Be That Lawyer with Steve Fretzin
A Life in Full with Chris Stout
Dan Hill on New Books Network
Choose the Hard Way with Andrew Vontz
Human Risk with Christian Hunt: Michele Wucker on You Are What You Risk
FlexJobs Webinar: Risk and the Future of Work: How to Thrive Amid Uncertainty
Flip the Script with Alina Costache and April Rinne
What You Need To Know About Risk on People First! with Morag Barrett
Portfolio Careers Podcast with David Nebinski

Climate Podcasts
New Climate podcast
Two Experts Offer Personal Solution Paths Amid Complexity and Inevitability on Sustain What? with Andrew Revkin
Electric Ladies podcast with Joan Michelson

Current Events
The Economist Radio with Tom Standage
Emerging World with Afshin Molavi
The 2022 Doomsday Clock on Sustain What? with Andrew Revkin
The Big Questions We Face in Coming Months with Amy Guth on Crain’s Chicago Business

Finance, Insurance, and Markets Podcasts
The Purse Podcast with Jana Hlistova
Airmic Talks
Steady Trade Episode 200: Discover Your Risk Fingerprint With Michele Wucker
IBTalk with Paul Lucas: Why You Are What You Risk
Populyst with Sami Karam: You Are What You Risk, with Michele Wucker
Invest Resolve with Mike Philbrick
Black Swans, Gray Rhinos, and Tigers..Oh My with Michele Wucker Chicago Derivatives Podcast/RCM Alternatives
Wall Street Coach with Kim Ann Curtin

Leadership and Governance Podcasts

NEW! Unpacking the Silicon Valley Bank Collapse, Billion Dollar Moves with Sarah Chen-Spellings, April 18, 2023
NEW! Bank Board Insights Series Part II: Risk Governance with Contributing Guest Michele Wucker on Travilian Next with Indra Elangovan, April 18, 2023
NEW! A Leadership Beyond podcast with Tom Rosenak and Adrienne Guerrero, March 28, 2023
Advancing All Women/NextUp with Sarah Alter of Next Up, Sara Pew of UberEats, and Chelsey Alexander of PharmaPacks
DCRO Risk Governance podcast with David Koenig
How to Make Better Decisions on Partnering Leadership with Mahan Tavakoli
How Risk Empathy Impacts Team Performance on Empathy Edge with Maria Ross
How Can Individuals’ Risk Personalities Affect Global Risk Management and ESG Adoption? Boardroom and Beyond with Lyndsey Zhang
The Ethics Experts with Nick Gallo


Technology and Security Podcasts
OODAcast: Michele Wucker on Identifying and Confronting the Obvious Risks of Gray Rhinos with Matt DeVost
Dark Rhino Security with Manoj Tandon
Hacker Valley Podcast with Chris Cochran and Ron Eddings
The Risk Episode: Black Swans, Grey Rhinos, Angels & Demons on 8th Layer Insights with Perry Carpenter
Information Security Forum ISF Podcast with Steve Durbin

Most recent update: June 1, 2023

Alex Honnold Chats with Michele on Climbing Gold

Professional adventure rock climber and free solo master Alex Honnold hosted Michele Wucker in two recent episodes of his popular Climbing Gold podcast. The episodes apply lessons from both The Gray Rhino and You Are What You Risk.

May 27: Captain Safety
Alex chats with Michele and Colin Haley, aka Captain Safety, who has shaped his risk fingerprint through two decades of elite alpinism, soloing and identifying risk factors.

June 10: Spotting the Gray Rhino
To manage risk, you first have to see the threat. Best-selling author Michele Wucker and Alex talk about how he evaluates risk, creating safety nets and his greatest fear. 
Listen below or wherever you like to listen to podcasts.


Read, listen and watch more about Michele’s latest book, YOU ARE WHAT YOU RISK: The New Art and Science of Navigating an Uncertain World at the links below:

You Are What You Risk book cover with Next Big Idea Club seal

A Next Big Idea Club Spring 2021 Nominee
An AudioFile Earphones Award honoree (audiobook edition): “Michele Wucker examines how gender and age, cultural and family norms, and economic status impact how we view and handle risk. With refreshing, often hip, writing, she explains the perceptual flaws that cloud our ability to grasp the chances we take in life…this enlightening lesson is full of insights and strategies for seeing the risks we take more clearly.” 
A Porchlight Books Editor’s Choice:  “Beyond understanding risk on a personal, an academic, and even a geopolitical level, what I think readers will be left with is a better understanding of the topic that Wucker ultimately uncovers—reality. To live in reality is to understand risk, and that it is no longer confined to our daily lives or the life of the communities, countries, and nations we live in.”

News Coverage and Reviews:
Los Angeles Review of Books: Risk Management and its Discontents: “Timely….Wucker offers a cultured, societal, gendered, and generational look at risk across the world.” 
Take the Lead Women: How Risky Are You? Discover Your Risk Profile to Succeed
YOU ARE WHAT YOU RISK: A Review by Anne Janzer
Q&A with Deborah Kalb
Grist: The World Is Getting Scarier
Risk & Insurance Magazine: COVID’s Unsettling Impact on the Future of Work and What Perils and Potential Upsides Remain
Book review in The Rewired Soul
World Class Performer: Short Life Lessons from Michele Wucker
Maeil Business Newspaper (Korea)” [5 Years After The Gray Rhino, Author Asks “What’s Your Risk Fingerprint?” (Cover Story) (in Korean; use browser translater)]
Financial Times: Risk Specialists Draw Lessons from Greensill Saga
The Wall Street Journal: Losing Dollars by Pinching Pennies

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: 40 Books for Summer Reading
Capital Spectator BookBits: Six More for the Investor’s Bookshelf
Practical eCommerce: 14 New Business Books for 2021
Business Digest EU: Les lectures à ne pas manquer – Printemps 2021 [Books not to miss -Spring 2021]

FlexJobs Webinar: Risk and the Future of Work: How to Thrive Amid Uncertainty
Sustain What? with Andrew Revkin: Two Experts Offer Personal Solution Paths Amid Complexity and Inevitability
YOU ARE WHAT YOU RISK Book launch “at” The Book Cellar in conversation with Amy Guth

Next Big Idea Club Book Bites (download app to listen)
Disaster Zone Episode 41: Personal and Organizational Risk Management
Steady Trade Episode 200: Discover Your Risk Fingerprint With Michele Wucker
Human Risk with Christian Hunt: Michele Wucker on You Are What You Risk
IBTalk with Paul Lucas: Why You Are What You Risk
Populyst with Sami Karam: You Are What You Risk, with Michele Wucker
OODAcast: Michele Wucker on Identifying and Confronting the Obvious Risks of Gray Rhinos

COVID-19 Related Podcasts

Catch up with Michele by listening to the recent podcast interviews she’s done focused on the COVID-19 pandemic and its financial consequences. Here are links and short descriptions:

Moneywise Guys
David Anderson and Sherod White, KERN Talk Radio/Moneywise Guys, June 30, 2020
David and Sherod talk with THE GRAY RHINO author Michele Wucker about why you should be wary of the surge in the markets, and how you can keep from getting trampled when the bull market turns to a bear.

Would You Know If a Gray Rhino Was Coming at You?
Jim Blasingame, The Small Business Advocate, June 16, 2020
Michele Wucker joins Jim Blasingame to reveal the concept of a metaphorical gray rhino, which is a challenge on your horizon that you should be – have been – able to anticipate and deal with before it takes – took – you down.

A Conversation with Michele Wucker
Anne Janzer’s blog, June 12, 2020
Podcast and transcript
“Q: For people who aren’t familiar with it, we’ll talk about your book The Gray Rhino. The reason that it’s coming up today is because this pandemic is a wonderful example of a Gray Rhino: a risk that it’s obvious we’ve seen stampeding towards us—or some people have been seeing and shouting about—and yet we’ve done nothing until we’re on the horn of the rhino.”

Michele Wucker Breaks Down the Gray Rhino
Scott Kitun, WGN Radio/Technori
June 10, 2020
“When people think back to the 2008 financial crisis and other big events, they often jump to the moment’s inevitability that catastrophically impacts economies, businesses and lives in what has become known as black swan events. However, Wucker dissects just how much we overlook in terms of predicting global-scale events and phenomenon, with the answers often hidden in plain sight.”

Black Swans, Gray Rhinos, and Tigers..Oh My with Michele Wucker
RCM Alternatives, Derivatives Podcast, May 28, 2020
[Video Podcast]
“The financial world seems to have a fascination with zoomorphism – the attribution of animal names, emotions, or intentions to non- animal occurrences like market shocks. Black Swans are the famous one, but there’s also been White Moose and Gray Rhino added to the lexicon. This episode we sit down with the creator of the Gray Rhino risk metaphor, Michele Wucker, author of The Gray Rhino.”

The big questions we face in coming months
Amy Guth, Crain’s Daily Gist, May 25, 2020
“Author Michele Wucker coined the term “grey rhino” for a highly probable, high-impact yet neglected threat. In this episode of the podcast, she talks with host Amy Guth about how grey rhinos could shape economic recovery, the practical decisions we’re going to need to make over the coming weeks and months and what helps us to bounce back quickly.”

Covid-19 and the perils of prediction
Tom Standage, The Economist The World Ahead (podcast), March 31, 2020
“As the Covid-19 situation worsens, host Tom Standage explores what the pandemic reveals about the perils of prediction and what other future threats we might be overlooking. ”

Michele Wucker and Gray Rhinos
Richard Cutcher and Julia Graham, Airmic Talks, May 10, 2020

Interview with Michele Wucker
David R. Koenig, DCRO Risk Governance, May 8, 2020

The Truth About Facing A Challenge
Gary Sanchez, Beyond Your Why, May 1, 2020

Global Thinkers Forum in Conversation with Changemakers
Elisabeth Filippouli, Global Thinkers Forum and Athena40, 17 April 2020

War, What Is It Good For?
National Public Radio on the Media, April 3, 2020

Breaking the Fever Inaugural Episode
Preventable Surprises and Ethical Systems, Breaking the Fever, March 31, 2020

The Economist’s The World Ahead podcast

The Economist magazine’s Tom Standage interviewed Michele Wucker on The World Ahead podcast posted Monday, March 30, 2020. In the episode, focused on Covid-19 and the perils of prediction, they talked about her gray rhino theory and how it applies to the pandemic and economic crises. You can listen HERE.

BuzzFeed News on the Dominican Republic, the US, and Citizenship

BuzzFeed reporter Emily Tamkin interviewed Michele Wucker and quoted her in Trump Wants To Cancel Birthright Citizenship. The US Has Already Helped One Country Do That, a November 12, 2018 article about the Dominican Republic’s stripping of citizenship to Dominicans of Haitian descent.

Donald Trump’s plan to end birthright citizenship by executive order was immediately denounced by legal scholars as an illegal intrusion on the Constitution’s 14th Amendment. But the United States knows something about ending birthright citizenship because it played an active role in helping another country bring it to a close — the Dominican Republic.

That role, which was unfolding before Trump became president, has long been the subject of criticism — from the Organization of American States, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, and former Peace Corps volunteers who served in Haiti, which shares the island of Hispaniola with the Dominican Republic. Trump’s criticism of birthright citizenship and call for a wall on the US–Mexico border have renewed concerns that the US is inflaming the Dominican Republic’s already hostile xenophobic attitudes toward its Haitian minority.


“US human rights organizations were very vocal against the court ruling in 2013, and were very vocal in documenting some of the problems, particularly as it came into force in 2015,” Michele Wucker, author of Why the Cocks Fight: Dominicans, Haitians, and the Struggle for Hispaniola, said.

Read the whole article on Buzzfeed.

The Gray Rhino on FT Alphachat

I enjoyed talking with the FT’s Matt Klein about why we don’t deal with problems we see in advance – and how to fix it- on the January 18, 2018 edition of FT Alphachat, the conversational podcast about business and economics produced by the Financial Times in New York. Each week, FT hosts and guests delve into a new theme, with more wonkiness, humour and irreverence than you’ll find anywhere else.


The Gray Rhino Goes Global

The gray rhino has continued its charge around the globe, with a front page, above the fold article in The New York Times July 23, 2017: “Let the West worry about so-called black swans, rare and unexpected events that can upset financial markets. China is more concerned about “gray rhinos” — large and visible problems in the economy that are ignored until they start moving fast.”

Here’s a roundup of some recent media coverage of China’s effort to crack down on its financial gray rhinos, including liquidity and credit risks, shadow banking, abnormal capital market fluctuations and real estate bubbles:

China ignores the ‘grey rhino’ threats to its economy at its own peril Andrew Sheng, South China Morning Post, July 21, 2017

From black swans to gray rhinos, Andrew Sheng, The Star (Malaysia), July 22, 2017

In China, Herd of ‘Gray Rhinos’ Threatens Economy  Keith Bradsher and Sui-yee Lee, The New York Times, July 23, 2017

Beware the ‘grey rhinos’ of economic risk or ‘prepare for pain’, analyst warns China Sidney Leng, South China Morning Post, July 23, 2017

Watch out for ‘grey rhino’ in jungle of financial risksChina Daily, Jul 24, 2017

The $180 million conflict that kept Scaramucci out of the White House in January has only gotten shadier Linette Lopez, Business Insider, July 24, 2017

Wanda Swears Off Overseas Deals after Xi Exchange, Greg Isaacson, Mingtiandi, July 25, 2017

China’s Communist Leaders Focus on ‘Grey Rhino’ Private-Sector Risks Alex Frew McMillan, MarketWatch, July 26, 2017

Hunting rhinos: What Dalian Wanda saga says about China  Karishma Vaswani, BBC News, July 26, 2017

Interview: Environment, resource constraints biggest “gray rhinos” in China: author
Xinhua, July 27, 2017

CINA. I tre rinoceronti grigi di Pechino. Graziella Giangiulio, Stampa (Italy), July 27, 2017

China to crack down on ‘gray rhino’ risks Li Xuanmin, The Global Times, July 30, 2017

Los cuatro ‘rinocerontes grises’ que amenazan con embestir al mercado Victor Blanco Moro, El Economista (Spain)  July 30, 2017.

Chinese Government Concerned about ‘Gray Rhino’ [VIDEO] World Insight with Tian Wei, CGTN, August 3, 2017

China Steps Up Warnings Over Debt-Fueled Overseas Acquisitions By Sui-Lee We. The New York Times. August 18, 2017